New genealogists all consider it tall you to definitely Nicholas’ partner Clementia are integrated here just like the, under typical issues, she’d not mentioned. When Susanna at the certain later on go out got out over another type of guardian, the latest partner of the guardian wasn’t stated.
This would signify King John spent a while indeed there and the possibility of an amorous liaison which have Clementia is available
What follows here is a concept cutting-edge because of the specific eminent genealogists, however it is fair to say that the fresh new findings are hotly contested!
It idea leads to a wonderful and you may curious ‘twist’ in the tale out-of Joanna, which could desire admirers from HBD!
At first glance, there is absolutely nothing to highly recommend people connection between the hostage, Susanna away from Wales and you can Clementia, partner out-of Nicholas de- Verdun. Although not, sensation of specific genealogists having overseas hostages, for example young ones, has been that they was in fact often set having friends, if any were offered.
Jumping toward 1236, there’s an entry on the Tewkesbury annals hence pertains to Joanna’s mother because the “King Clemencie!” It checks out to some extent:
Now, it is known that the mommy away from Joanna was called Clementia (Clemence?
In such a case the new monk was obviously indulging inside the medieval legalism. In advance of their particular dying, Joanna got legitimised because of the Pope. On the basis of that legitimisation, the Tewksbury monk plainly got they through to himself to elevate Joanna’s mother on the standing off King, as if her mommy is Queen John’s spouse! It is true although not, one King John and you can Clementia was indeed never ever hitched. From the talking about Joanna’s mom since the “Queen” Clementia, new monk whom recorded Joanna’s demise is showing their significant admiration to have Joanna, however trying to alter the real points.
As for the title off Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she is the fresh daughter out-of Roger de- Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. One to genealogist considers it high one Clementia regarded away from Wiltshire just like the he has noticed that King John got a robust attachment to one state, it as the home out of their best partners, new Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found that name ‘Clementia’ try very rare certainly one of English noblewomen with the period. In one single desk out-of women’s labels which had been compiled, there have been just a few incidents of https://brightwomen.net/fi/intialaiset-naiset/ title “Clementia” from a maximum of 1407 women in the new test! The reality that someone entitled Clementia would be regarding the Susanna is recognized as extreme.
So! Evidence are effective, but not conclusive, you to definitely when you look at the 1228, Susanna, since an excellent hostage, gotten out to new proper care of her maternal grandmother, today partner out of Nicholas de Verdun!!
The Scottish genealogists of MacDuffs’ keep one Susanna ferch Llywelyn was created 1214 within the Gwynnedd, Wales and you may passed away c. 1259 into the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife into the 1230 together with two people: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl from Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.
Definitely, there are stop arguments to any or all this conjecture! King John had of several mistresses and maybe up to 7 illegitimate people. The mother out of Joanna would have been born circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself came into this world circa 1191 (fourteen years old during the time of their own wedding in order to Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh new known genuine child out-of Nicholas de- Verdun and his wife Clementia came into this world circa 1210-1213. When the Clementia are mom from Joanna, she’d are in her late 30’s, early 40’s when giving birth so you’re able to Rohese! Not impossible, some state, however, not likely.